Chill Like a Mother Podcast
This show shares stories, offers tips and tricks, and provides education to help you feel more chill like the mother you know you want to be.
Hey! I'm Kayla Huszar, a creative counsellor who's all about unconventional therapy that encourages creativity, curiosity and finding what makes you feel alive (again). I've helped so many women navigate the waves (ups and downs) of motherhood, and I'm here for you, too!
So, if you're feeling overwhelmed or need a moment to yourself, grab your headphones and press play on an episode!
You're not alone, and you already know what you need.
Chill Like a Mother Podcast
Being the World's Okayest Mom with Amanda Gurman
Ever feel torn between the relentless demands of parenting and the whisper of self-care? Amanda and I open our hearts about the rollercoaster of emotions that come with the desire for alone time while raising kids.
- We call bull on the guilt, the pressure to be a "good" mom, and the profound lessons learned as we figure out what authenticity means.
- We talk about the significance of setting boundaries and embracing self-care as a non-negotiable part of motherhood.
- We dissect the subtle art of using personal time to recharge and the courage it takes to parent solo when partners are away.
- We call out the martyrdom narrative that social media often amplifies and craft a definition of motherhood that fits each person.
This episode is an invitation to normalize the discussions on maternal mental health struggles, recognizing that wanting to escape doesn't equate to failure as a parent.
Listen to this episode if you'd like to know about the gray areas of motherhood, embracing the notion that sometimes, being the "world's okayest mom" is not only enough; it's everything.
Meet Kayla Huszar, the Host of the Chill Like a Mother Podcast
Hey, moms! I’m Kayla Huszar, and I’m here to help you calm the chaos in modern-day mothering with expressive art therapy. As a creative counsellor, I support moms who feel stuck and are looking to regulate their emotions, reduce anxiety, and tackle stress and overwhelm.
SOCIAL WORKER | EXPRESSIVE ART FACILITATOR | PERINATAL MENTAL HEALTH
Join me on Instagram for more tips and inspiration. And thank you for letting me be a part of your day—even with the kids running amok! If this episode helped you feel a bit more chill, please leave a rating or review. Your feedback helps the podcast reach more moms who need to hear it.
Good morning.
Speaker 2:Amanda hey, how are you? I am good. How are you? I'm good, I'm really good. I'm excited to chat with you today.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so excited that you agreed to be on our podcast and to talk about this idea of how do we actually, how do we actually give ourselves permission to take care of ourselves and wade through all of the, the guilt and the identifying with one particular parenting style and just like all of the things, and for listeners, if you like, just need to kind of identify with where we are at in parenting.
Speaker 1:Um, I have an eight and a four-year-old and so I'm out of the baby years, and so the things that that amanda and I might be talking about today might not be totally applicable if you're still in the baby years, because I can tell you that if I would have stumbled upon a podcast like this in my first, maybe three years of parenting, I would have been like I ain't got space for that. Though, if you are in a great space and you feel like you still want to listen, for all of the permission giving and all of the antics and the anecdotes that we might get into today, of course you are welcome to hang around. So, amanda, let's give the listeners a bit of context for where you're at in parenting.
Speaker 2:Sure, so I'm similar to you. I have a seven and a five-year-old, so I agree with what you're saying. Like if I would have heard somebody say the things I'm going to say today five years ago I would have punched her. I would have been like, say the things I'm going to say today five years ago, I would have punched her Because I would have been like it's not possible. It would have been like fuck you yeah like your life is so perfect and mine is so hard and horrible.
Speaker 2:And that's not to like downplay anyone with younger kids, because it is fucking hard, it's so hard. And I think there's also like a space to say like each of us like have strengths and weaknesses in parenting and like I just didn't like newborns and toddlers. They were not fun, they were bossy, they didn't sleep. I'm really good at this stage of parenting because, like I am good with feelings and conversations and like I mean you know what I mean like it gets hard, just like different, it's just different hard. I'm better at this hard than I was. That hard, yes, and that's okay. So I'm very similar to you.
Speaker 2:So we're in a stage where, you know, both my kids are a little bit independent. They can feed themselves, they go to the bathroom on their own, they want privacy when they get changed, like you know, I I give them their clothes in the morning and they get themselves dressed and brush their teeth and go to the bathroom on their own and they still need me, but it's, it just looks different, that's all. Yeah, no one is like going to die if I leave them downstairs for an hour. You know Hour.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yeah, more than an hour is questionable's questionable, but I know that coming out of, like my son, my youngest will be, will be five, and so I've been really feeling that, the closing, you know, kind of of the, the toddler years. I've just been feeling this like my life around him turning five. How long I struggled to give myself permission to also be a human in the title and the world of parenting. Did you find that too?
Speaker 2:Very much so, and it wasn't until I don't remember if it was like my therapist. I truly can't remember if it was like my therapist or someone I've had on my own podcast, because I've had a lot of therapists on the podcast too, let's just go. It was with a therapist who said something to me like you know, our kids are humans too, right. Like they're allowed to have bad days, they're allowed to wake up miserable, they're allowed to just like not want to function in society that day or whatever. Right, which is so true. But I remember when I heard that, that was like a really big aha moment for me, because I think I had this expectation that my kids will, like you know, be a particular way and we can kind of forget that they're also human. Yes, okay, they don't have the responsibilities that we do. So we think like what do you have to be worried about that we do? So we think like what do you have to be worried about or what do you have to be tired about? But they're humans.
Speaker 2:And so when I gave my children permission to be human, it kind of also was like well then, I am allowed to be human, like it's okay if I screw up and yell at you today. I am a human and you are frustrating as hell. So, like you know, it's okay if I'm going to screw up and yell at you. Like I I do do the whole. Like I apologize, I take accountability and we have a conversation about it. But, like I can do those things, cause I am also a human being, I'm allowed to have a bad day or have a more tired day or have a day where I let my kids sit in front of a screen all day because I'm just toast, like I'm a human being too. But it wasn't until then, and so I started this podcast in 2020. So I'm going to say it was like 2021. So I mean, I was parenting for many years in the whole. I am not allowed to take a break mentality.
Speaker 1:How do you actually do that Like? Can you break that down for somebody who maybe is like I actually don't know how I can possibly?
Speaker 2:I would say, first and foremost, you have to work through your shit, right, because I think, like so I'm just going to use myself as an example I have a spouse who, if I said so, tomorrow I'm gonna fly to the moon and I'll be back in three years. He'd be like cool, I got this. Like he's. He's down to support me. However I need. I have parents who would also be like great, we got the kids, no problem, and I have this incredible support system. I am very lucky. I have a very big, wide support system.
Speaker 2:And I still didn't ask for help. I still didn't acknowledge those things. So I think, first and foremost, you have to give yourself permission, whatever that looks like, and hopefully you're not like me, where I had to be in like a very deep, dark depression to realize how buried I was by myself, truly, and then, once I started to ask for help, it was uncomfortable, but now it's so easy. But you have to actually, like, take steps towards it. If you're like me and you have this supportive spouse or this supportive system around, you, ask your people. Hey, can you watch the kids for me? And just be honest, like, I just need a break. I just want to go to the store by myself, or I'm just going to go away with my spouse for the night. Like we really need this. Chances are. They get it, trust me, they get it, they get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it wasn't until I like started actually saying like I just need a break, like can you watch my kids for the day? I'm going to go and take a day for me. Or I would tell my husband I'm going to book the day off work and I need you to pick the kids up from school and deal with dinner and I'm just going to go, like I don't have a plan but I'm just going to go do something for me, whatever that looked like. And once I started to do those things and I started to notice like I didn't die when I asked somebody for help and they weren't like, oh my God, you're the world's worst mother. You don't want to spend time with your children.
Speaker 2:Then that just became a little bit easier. So now I'm very quick to just ask for help, like hey, you know what? I have a doctor's appointment, really need your help. I need someone to pick the kids up from aftercare or school or whatever it looks like. And it's just like it just kind of rolls right out of my mouth. Now it's so much easier. But like the biggest hurdle was giving myself permission to be that bad mother I'm quoting who needed someone else to watch her kids because it was like God forbid you do it yourself needed someone else to watch her kids, because it was like, god forbid you do it yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh, so true, and I'm. I'm in this like intricate. It's not that intricate, but we just moved and so the help, the people who I was used to asking for help, are different. Here I left those people. Oh, so you have to relearn, we have to relearn, I'm having to relearn how to do this.
Speaker 1:That'd be really hard. Yeah, and it's new, it's new people. They're not new people to me, it's just a new set of people. So the other day we were at a family member's house and I was just kind of like, oh man, my husband got a new job and I I he wasn't working. So I scheduled all these meetings and I normally know how to like navigate and should I cancel a little. And she just like put her hand on my knee and was like, just bring the kids over here. It was just so simple like no judgment. No, like well, yeah, you should take all those days off work. And yeah, you know it was.
Speaker 1:It wasn't anything like I imagined it was going to be right. I, it wasn't anything like I imagined it was going to be right. I have created that story that I'm going to be judged or I'm going to be viewed or labeled in a certain way. And it was just like no, you're just going to bring the kids over here, right? Like you're not going to worry, you're not going to make this complicated. And I was like, okay, yeah, I'll do that.
Speaker 2:I know and then. But then you can still hear like I know you can hear the hesitation of like it is that cool?
Speaker 2:and so you have to also realize like people wouldn't offer if they don't want to. If they don't want to, they won't, like, legitimately, they will not. That is so true, exactly. And also then I used to think to myself like am I putting a burden on them? Well, you know what, if I ask you, hey, can you help me out with my kids, and you say yes, and you don't want to, that's not my shit to carry, that's yours like right. So sometimes you can get in your head like, but I don't really know that they want to. Well, if they do, they will, if they don't want to, they won't, and that's it and it doesn't mean anything about you. Yeah, that's a good one. And I remember finally, like kind of coming to that aha moment and I'm like God, this is so simple, but like we complicate it so much and make it seem like we are the worst mom in the world because I want to go for my goddamn pap smear alone.
Speaker 2:Right, like I don't want my kid. They've already been there once, they don't need to come back. Like you know, leave us alone, yeah, but that's been like the biggest thing for me. Like, truly like. Think about it, simplify it. What you're asking, asking you're not asking them to like, watch your kid for three months and feed them and clothe them for the rest of their lives, like you're asking them to help you out for an afternoon or a day or a weekend or whatever it is yeah, yeah and even if it was a week, you know, even if it was a week to go to Mexico or on a business trip or just fricking, stay home by yourself for four or five nights.
Speaker 1:Like again the people who you ask if they say yes and you in your, your deepest heart, feel like they are a safe and trustworthy person and they are saying yes, yes, that they're saying yes, like take it at face value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for me too. I had this big moment for a long time. So when my kids were younger, I used to be alone with my kids every weekend because my husband and I worked opposite shifts. So he would, were, I would work Monday to Friday, and he worked Friday, saturday, sunday and then Fridays for the longest time, cause, you know, um, I work in the hospital system. So, like back to back Matt leaves, I accumulated a whole bunch of vacation time and I had all this vacation time.
Speaker 2:So I thought to myself you know why I'm going to take the Fridays off? Cause my kids were in daycare and I thought I struggled with it. I didn't tell anybody, I did it for a really long time because I was like I am purposely using a bunch of my vacation time to take a day off, that my kids are not home, they're actively in daycare. And then I had this like time to kind of realize what a better mom I was on the weekends, because I was alone with them. So it was a lot, especially during the pandemic weekends. Because I was alone with them. So it was a lot, especially during the pandemic. They were so little and so I realized like what a present mother I was. What a more patient mother I was and just how happier I was that I was having these Fridays to lay on the couch all day or go. I did a lot of Indigo trips back in the day. I did love going to Indigo by myself and Starbucks. It is like the place.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter where I am or like what group of moms I'm talking to. It is like winners or chapters.
Speaker 2:Indigo is like where we all want to go, yeah, and there's like coffee involved, right, so it's like it's never a bad idea. But so I just remembered that like wow, like what a difference it made in me that I had this time to refuel or go visit friends or nap, like whatever it looked like. So then that also helped me give permission, because I also had this realization of like wow, I'm like a better mom when I can actually pour into myself. That is actually true. That saying is true that you cannot pour from an empty cup, and I poured from an empty one for way too long.
Speaker 1:I resonate with the solo parenting. So my husband works in oil and gas and gone for seven days, home for seven days and so, like, not home in the evenings at all, lives at camp. And so the solo parenting that I do, if I don't ask for help, I do it all by myself. And the narrative of that is damaging not only to me but to our relationship, because I'll say things like I'm doing this by myself or when you're not here, I'm doing it by myself. And while that's not untrue right, like it's not, not true it's this deep rooted gendered conditioning around what a good mother does.
Speaker 1:And I come from an environment where my mom was a single parent.
Speaker 1:I was an only child and so I actually witnessed like single parenting actually is, and she built an amazing village for herself.
Speaker 1:I was at grandparents, I was.
Speaker 1:You know, you can go to uncles today and go to the older cousins, volleyball games, you can have a sleep over here or prearrange something over here, and it was like I witnessed all of that and yet I still struggle with it, like I knew what that takes now as an adult, now as a parent, like I actually understand what that would have taken to organize all of that as a single parent, and I still struggle with it, and so it's interesting that, even though you can witness something in your own childhood as something as positive as that and not be able to apply it to your own self when you get to be a mother, which just speaks volumes to this, this new pressure that we're all navigating you know, like me and you, we weren't going to Instagram when our oldest was a baby, right Like.
Speaker 1:There wasn't parenting information on Instagram. Therapists were not on Instagram. It was not what it is today, and explaining that to new parents, they, they, um, they can't, they can't comprehend it, because they're like there was a time when this didn't exist and it was like, yes, there was a time when this didn't exist, and it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 2:No, you're right, it really wasn't. I can remember like grasping at straws trying to get information when, like my son, was really little, like it was more like Googling, yes, or like a facebook mom group yeah, or like pinterest, like pinterest was full of yeah, like mommy bloggers yeah, it seems like the messaging about you know, being that perfect mom and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's like the messaging or some. If something is louder, yes, whatever that something is, if it's just people's influence on social media, if it's society, um, which is interesting because there's also like a huge push for like you know me and you right, we're, we don't, we don't, we don't fuck around with that, like I'm not, I'm not a martyr, I never will be. But I struggled, thinking I was supposed to be one for a very, very long time. Yeah, I think there is like an expectation when we go into motherhood that we think we're supposed to be like the June Cleaver mom. I think, like a lot of us go in with that expectation or with that hope that we will be. And then I mean, and some of us are, some of us can be that person and I think if you are that person, like that's totally fine as long as you're happy and content being that person. But when I was, I was so exhausted trying to be that person and I just like needed to give myself permission that I didn't have to be that person. So I worked through a lot of what I hated about being a parent.
Speaker 2:What I didn't like about motherhood when my kids were really little, especially my son, my first one Cause it was like I don't want to rock him to sleep every night. That sounds terrible, I don't. I don't want to rock him to sleep every night. That sounds terrible, I don't. I don't want to do that. Like I want to lay down by myself, like it's okay that you want to lay down by yourself.
Speaker 2:You don't have to be the mom that like rocks her kids at bed every night and co-sleeps and and makes her own baby food and breastfeeds till they're five. Like you don't. It's okay. If you like formula feed and feed from the jar and put your baby in a crib in the first two weeks that they're born, like all of that is also okay. And if you want to talk about like how much you hate it, that's also okay too. Because, like we all do from time to time and I found that to be a very big struggle for me to be like this is really hard, because every time I wanted to say it, I was met with like well, this is motherhood, welcome to motherhood. You know, this is your life for the next 18 years. What did I do wrong? I've made the wrong decision. Can I go back?
Speaker 1:And this isn't at all what the, the vision or the thing that I was like led to believe it was going to be.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought like it was just going to be magical, right, like the baby would come out, my maternal instincts would come in, I have boobs, so I would breastfeed, and I would just know what to do. And people told me that I wasn't going to sleep, but I had partied all night many times. So like that was going to be fine, because I've done it, I've stayed up many, many times, so all that was going to work out. And now I'm like it's just so different. It's just so different, and so that's why I like I love having these conversations, because I think it's just so great To normalize the fact that like it's, because I think it's just so great to normalize the fact that, like it's okay that you don't want to be a mom today. It's okay if you don't like being a mom today.
Speaker 2:You know, obviously also mental health concerns are a factor, and I am here to support anyone who is struggling immensely and, you know, wanting to run away. But I mean, I'm also talking about, like you know, is there days when I woke up and I was like I really don't want to do this today, of course, and so I'm also talking about, like you know, is there days when I woke up and I was like I really don't want to do this today, of course, and so like I'm trying to create a space where, like, we can just talk about that Cause it's fine because we all feel the same way.
Speaker 2:And then also, if you are someone that wants to run away regularly and it's more of like a mental health concern, then like, let's talk about it, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:Let's be real about that, because it's it's really important to all. Like all of that stuff matters, right, like it's important to name it, it's important to breathe it, it's important to give it life. Right before we hit record, I was telling Amanda that I was presenting at a group yesterday and it was a childbirth prep class and we were talking about mental health and all these things and I could just see this look in their eyes of like deer in the headlights and like, oh my god, like and I was still trying to be very like inclusive and like in, you know, like not I want to use the word like trauma-informed, you know around, like I don't know what these people's lived experiences are, I don't know what I could be activating within them, but also, like we, we got to a closing and the deer in the headlights, you know they kind of softened and we, we really talked about some of the really horrible things that can happen in postpartum and I just said, like your mental health is the most important thing right now. Like, if you are fixated on something, if you are stuck on something like the right sleep sack or the right stroller or the safety ratings on the car seats, all of that stuff is secondary to your mental health.
Speaker 1:If you are having thoughts that I want to run away or I want to escape, that's actually what depression and anxiety sounds like. Never say I'm depressed or I'm anxious, especially outside of maybe our like romantic partnerships or our best friend right Like that's really the only time that we might say that phrase, or in our therapy room. But I like I was just saying to these women and I could just get the impression that nobody had been talking about mental health yet with them. No one should have to struggle like that and think that they're failing or think that they're the problem at any stage of parenting because they're not like they're not. You are not the problem.
Speaker 2:The problem is the problem.
Speaker 1:Like you are not the problem. Your partner is not the problem. Your baby is not the problem. The problem is the problem. Like you are not the problem, your partner is not the problem.
Speaker 2:Your baby is not the problem. The problem is the problem exactly, and I think that's where there's always been this like um, I used to call it like a twisted part of me, like when I was younger. Um, I really wanted to like go into psychology, but but like I wanted to like get into like the depth of people's brains and like the darkness of people's brains. I just found it all so fascinating. I want to create a space for those moms who are in that deep, dark space, because I now realize, like, when we don't give them an opportunity to talk about it, because it is uncomfortable, right, like if you're like you just experienced in this group, you could get the sense that no one was talking about it, probably because you could feel that uncomfortable, awkward, it's like this tension, right. Like of course, nobody wants to talk about suicide and we don't want to talk about hurting ourselves or our children. We don't want to talk about, you know, a mom like running away and abandoning her kids. All of those things are fucking horrible, but they happen and they generally happen because we don't give that mom a space to share what she's feeling.
Speaker 2:You know, I had this mom on my podcast.
Speaker 2:Once I found her on TikTok.
Speaker 2:To be honest, her TikTok just like made my jaw hit the floor and she was just sharing how she struggled with postpartum psychosis and the things that her thoughts were telling her to do. And she blew my mind because she was so open, like this is what they told me to do, this is what I wanted to do, this was my plan and I finally got help because I realized how dark and scary those thoughts were and I was like I love you. I love you, like we need to talk about these things because this is happening. She ended up having like some sort of thyroid condition that was like accompanying all of the other stuff, but the thyroid condition was a major player in her postpartum depression and psychosis. So like that's why, like, we have to talk about this, because if she didn't talk about it then other moms might not know that they need to have their thyroid levels checked For her. She also explained it to me that like she wants moms to understand that like physically, there could be something going on inside your body.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to do with. Just you're a bad mom that wants to hurt her kids.
Speaker 1:That's not it, that's never been it, but like or like some of the things that some of my clients have said to me are like why, why did why did this happen to me Right? Like why not somebody else? Why? Why did depression or anxiety or OCD choose me? Why, why was I the one who am the only person who had a traumatic stress response to this kind of birth, when I've heard other people not have that same response? It's not so personal sometimes.
Speaker 2:It's not black and white, yeah Well, and even like I would challenge that thought of like, why me? I now kind of think it's all of us. Just some of us hide it better, right, not everybody has a diagnosis, but you can't tell me. There is not one mother listening right now who hasn't experienced like, and I hate this day, I hate this. This is exhausting. I wish I never did this. Like, what am I? Like, what have I done to my life? Like, do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Like I've realized that more and more and more is the moms who don't want to be open and talk about it are probably the ones that are struggling the most. I think it's all of us. Just again, you're the only one. You feel like, you're the only one sitting in that therapist chair getting support on it and you're actually so much better off because you know it's you. But it is hard. It's hard to see that when you're in it, it feels very like I am the worst mother in the world and I, you know, my kids deserve better and all of the things. And none of that is true.
Speaker 1:What is the like, the mantra or the affirmation, or like the phrase that you say to yourself, or said to yourself when you were really working on this? Like permission giving to, like take care of yourself?
Speaker 2:Sounds really silly, but I used to just repeatedly tell myself that I'm a good mom. Now I can tell you with full confidence I'm a good mom, like I do not doubt that in any way, shape or form, even on the days when I ripped my kids heads off, even on the days that I've stuck them in front of a screen all day, even on the days when I'm like, you know, I could have done more. Yeah, okay, of course we could have, but we all, freaking, could have like, and that day just didn't, it just wasn't as great as tomorrow will be, but tomorrow will be better. But there's something that now I've told myself that so much that I truly like, I know it, I believe it, I I do, because that was always my biggest thing, I was trying to. So I struggled with postpartum rage and I did a lot of yelling, a lot of door slamming, a lot of yelling, and I kept thinking like I'm totally screwing this whole thing up, like.
Speaker 2:So the consistency of like telling myself that I'm a good mom, um, that was really supportive to me, and so I think, like the power of that is huge. I should probably change it into other things in my life now because you know there's certain things everybody's confident about or not so confident about. But one thing I know a hundred percent and like someone could tell me tomorrow you know, I don't really think you're great mom I'd be like good for you. That's fine, because I know I am. Yeah, like in my soul of all souls. I know that's something I'm very confident about is, I'm a damn good mother and I show up every single day, and some days I'm better than others, but that's okay. My mom was better than others some days too, and I think she's a kick-ass mom it.
Speaker 1:It changes the narrative of whatever the story is that a person might be telling themselves. And you know affirmation work is it's proven. There's like research based things about telling yourself positive things and it's not like toxic positivity or like reframing your thoughts If you've had a negative experience with, like CBT or something. It's like. Affirmation work is different in the sense that, like, you are wanting to believe something and and you, you actively are participating in the therapy or the mental health or the whatever the things are that come with the affirmation, um, that when you repeat that affirmation to yourself, you say it as many times and you actually do start to believe it.
Speaker 1:It's like when we start to believe all the negative shit that we say to ourselves all the time, nobody questions how that negative shit got there, right, but somehow I think when, when I've done affirmation work with people, especially in groups, they're like, well, does it really work? But like, really, does it really work? And it's like, well, you seem to believe all the negative stuff. So like, could we try? Like, could we try the positive stuff? And doing the work doesn't have to look like actual therapy in a therapy room, it just means like, like you said, dealing with your shit. Circling back to that first statement. You said dealing with your shit. Circling back to that first statement. You said like to give yourself permission to do any of this stuff, to land on a positive affirmation, to start believing it. You have to deal with your shit first, whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could do a whole nother podcast on what the work looks like, but it's like for sure and I think that's what I was going to say to you was like I think it's like you really start to believe it when you start to see that you're actually doing the things. Yes, but you got to work on the things to start to see yourself do the things, Does that?
Speaker 1:make sense. Anything else you have the urge to share with our listeners today today.
Speaker 2:My only other thing I would love because it's something that seems to come up a lot or I needed a lot of is just the reminder of you're not alone, and I find like in the motherhood space particularly, it can be so incredibly difficult because it feels very alone, like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I've had like anxiety and depression episodes other times in my life, but that, like nobody understands what I'm going through was so heavy in like that time of my life when I mean this doesn't mean that you have to do this, but when I started talking about my postpartum depression experience online and the flood of comments and dms and just like whatever, and then starting the podcast and just the reviews that I've received or messages, you're just like this is like an epidemic. We all feel like we are failing 24 seven. So I would encourage you to just start having the conversation, even if it's just like at a mommy and me group, like this is really hard right, like is anybody else struggling with how hard this is? And they're all going to thank you for opening that conversation, because they're all struggling too in one way shape or form. Maybe some are struggling more than others, but even the moms who look like they're so good at it and you've like labeled them as like the best mom ever. Like they need that space.
Speaker 1:And I think something really important to add on to that is that you don't have to start every sentence with I love my baby, but or I love.
Speaker 2:Yes, you don't, you don't, you don't, we get it, we get it, we get it here.
Speaker 1:You're at mommy and baby group or you're at therapy or you're out with friends, like we know this. We know that you love your baby, we know this.
Speaker 1:And you know what If you don't, if you don't love your baby, if you are in that space because I have lived that experience so it's even when you don't feel like you love your baby or your toddler or your school ager who just told you they hated you for the first time, like you still do. There is still a part of you. Even if you can't see it, even if it's invisible, even if it only comes around once a week, there is still a part of you that does, and you don't have to start every sentence with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the two things can be true. That's kind of been my. My biggest takeaway is motherhood is gray and we all go into it trying to be black or white, and you can be neither. You can never be either of them. You will never be a good mom every day. You'll never have it figured out. Your kid will never sleep, sometimes like it's. You will never be one or the's. You will never be one or the other. You will never be a good mom or a bad mom. You're always just gonna like a decent one who sits in the middle.
Speaker 2:None of us actually know where the middle gray area is, and it's messy and it's ugly and it's beautiful and it's all the things. But no one can tell you how to get there. But once you figure out when you're there, you're like oh, this is, I'm just gonna be the world's okayest mom. Yes, right, yeah, the best at this. Like, yes, so I'm. I'm always just trying to find the beauty in the gray, because that's just where all the answers are because every kid is different, every situation is different.
Speaker 2:There is no black or white answer is kind of what I've figured out yes, yes, so no one's actually doing it right or wrong. That's also what I figured out. Right, we're all just doing like a decent, mediocre job.
Speaker 1:As long as they're alive, well and fed, then we're winning yeah, we are all winning at the end of the day, and whatever healthy, happy and fed looks like for you is also in the gray, it's also in the gray awesome. Oh, my goodness, it was so great to actually um record this with you and me too I'm really excited it was.
Speaker 2:I know this was wonderful.
Speaker 1:We could have like six more we actually could like, and actually I think we already named six more even in the recording of this one. There's there's textbooks, there's actual books, there's many different takes on how all of this works and lands and skills and resources and tools, and so I never, I never claimed to think that we're going to solve the problem in in one episode, but a series of episodes or a series of resources. You can, you can learn to practice being in the gray and being the world's most good enough mother. Yeah Well, thank you. Thank you, Amanda, it was great having you.
