How to Refill Your Cup When Motherhood's Got You Running on Empty

Alright, mamas—let's talk burnout. If you’re feeling like the chaos of motherhood is swallowing you whole, this episode is for YOU.

Today, I sit down with Jenny from Mama Needs a Refill, and trust me, she’s about to blow your mind with simple, actionable strategies to help you calm the chaos and reclaim a little peace.

From grounding morning rituals that take less than a minute to micro-pauses that stop you from going down the mindless scrolling rabbit hole, Jenny’s here to show you how to refill your cup in the middle of the madness.

Oh, and we're diving deep into co-regulating with your kids—because sometimes, it's not about calming them down, it's about finding calm together.

By the end of this episode, you’ll have practical, no-BS strategies to stop running on fumes and start showing up for yourself. So buckle up—it’s time to sip, pause, and breathe your way back to sanity. 

Ready? Let's do this.

Chapters

• 0:01 Prioritizing Self-Care and Presence
• 12:50 Embracing Moments of Connection and Self-Care
• 25:33 Teaching Wisdom Through Visuals and Silence
• 40:16 Small Steps to Self-Care

Transcript

Kayla Huszar: 0:01

Oh, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Whenever you happen to be listening to the podcast today, picture this the day is finally winding down, the kids are asleep and you have a brief moment to yourself, but instead of doing something creative or meditative or finally cracking open that book you've been dying to read, you've convinced yourself, and society has convinced us also, that we're just going to add that to the tomorrow's to-do list. That's tomorrow's problem. We'll rest. We'll rejuvenate tomorrow. Welcome back to another episode of the Chill Like a Mother podcast. I am Kayla Huzar, your host and creative counselor for moms, and today I am joined by Jenny, author of Mama Needs a Refill. Finding Light in the Midst of Madness.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 0:56

Hello Jenny, hi, good morning Kayla. How are you today? You know I'm good. I'm good, I've done my rituals that helped me get grounded and I'm excited to meet you and grateful to be on this show with you. Thank you.

Kayla Huszar: 1:09

Oh, awesome. So I just want to say that, as a mom in this stage of life, and all of the moms that I work with in their various stages of life, I think I can speak for a lot of us when moms think that our needs can wait, because everyone else's comes first. And I can tell you from my own personal experience and probably the reason why this book was written in the first place is that this is a one-way ticket to burnout.

Kayla Huszar: 1:43

And the crappiest part of all of this is that, as moms, the narrative that I hear so often is that I don't have an hour. Right, like when would I find an hour? And what we're going to be talking about today is, exactly as Jenny's already mentioned, these rituals, these five minutes, these 30 seconds of something that can make a huge difference between burnout and finding balance or harmony, or whatever word you want to use in there. And if you've listened to the podcast before, you have heard me say this a lot that prioritizing your needs, your urges, your desires, your wants is absolutely paramount, especially when you don't have time.

Kayla Huszar: 2:32

I posted a reel over the summer and it was like, if the average person needs 20 minutes out in nature or something, and if you are a really busy human being, you need an hour 20 minutes out in nature or something, and if you are a really busy human being, you need an hour, because when you're busy and your kids are little and there, there, there is no time. I'm not even going to try to slice it another way. There is very little time for moms of little children and and or families who have complex medical needs or neurodiversity. They're just, there is no time, and so, with that, I want to start right, like with the quick wins. Jenny, what did you do this morning to ground yourself, to get ready for today, so that you could be here present talking about this glorious work that you do?

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 3:22

That is a great question. So I sat up in bed. The minute I woke up, husband was still. He may have been still snoring next to me, I'm not sure. Or he may have already gotten up to get the coffee, I don't remember. But I sat up in bed, I put a pillow behind me and I put a hand on my heart and I just said I love you. And then I said thank you, and I didn't say thank you to anyone or anything in particular. Um, sometimes that changes, um, and I didn't get specific, but I just plugged into.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 3:58

The first thing I did was sit up, love to self, saying thank you. I have to start in stillness and quiet because I'm wired like the Energizer bunny on on crack, right. So I had to. That's what I did. I did not get to my writing yet this morning. I didn't step outside yet this morning. I'm just being really real with you. I knew I had this conversation with you, so I did take I did take a quick rinse off shower.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 4:28

I didn't want you to have to smell me, kayla. That was important to me. That's that physical. Just water grounds me. Gets you for anyone who gets overwhelmed, easy hands under cold water If you can't take a bath or a shower or dive into a pool or a lake or the ocean. Hands under cool water, it clears the energies and gets you present.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 4:50

So that's what I did. I literally took a shower and five seconds of or pardon me, my 10 minutes of meditation, keeping in mind my children are grown and out of the house, but that doesn't mean and they were home this summer it doesn't mean that my relationship stopped and I was just able to just be Jenny. Of course, all the mom stuff turned on. So all this to say, the number one thing I had to do was connect my energy plug in to today. The fundamental teaching you probably know this is Buddhism that everything changes. I'm different than yesterday, so I had to get present for today. I didn't exercise this morning and I didn't even eat breakfast yet this morning, because the most important fuel for me is connection, connection to self.

Kayla Huszar: 5:50

Oh, that speaks volumes to me and, as someone who is still in the little kid phase, I'm I'm on the cusp of it. My youngest is going to kindergarten this year. I'm just like I'm right on the cusp of. You know, he's in between preschool and and school ager.

Kayla Huszar: 6:08

Um, I, I can really see this practice of sitting up in the morning and just, whether it's out loud or silent, or while I'm in the shower, that like habit stacking, or while I'm brushing my teeth, just that like that love to to self or love to someone else, especially if I'm in a in a tough phase with someone, or, um, my, my partner works away, so he works, um, he's home for a week, gone for a whole week, and so, um, I can, I can get into my head a little bit about how connected we are and how our relationship is, because literally, we're absent from each other, right, and so one of my recent mantras as a busy mom who solo parents 50% of the time, is he loves you Like if I ever get in my head about you know, you know, whatever.

Kayla Huszar: 7:05

Or he comes home and he's a little bit grumpy and I'm like you've been away for a week, how can you be grumpy with us already? It's like he loves you, he loves us like just, and it's it's three seconds of just, like don't let that story fuel you. You have zero evidence for it. Just like there's nothing wrong.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 7:28

I'm so delighted to hear you say that. And what I'm hearing, kayla, is that you are plugging into your relationship with yourself, and maybe that's like the number one point that we can get across today is getting present, tapping into your energy, yeah, getting present, tapping into your energy, yeah, and all day long. We need to do that because we get spun by the demands and needs of everyone else. Right, yeah, it's that, it's, it's the conversations that you're having with yourself, and maybe we can also inspire a new relationship, not only with yourself, but with time, relationship not only with yourself, but with time. Say more, say more words. You got it. Here I go, instead of saying I don't have enough time, and instead of saying, when I have time, you get present To me.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 8:18

Kayla, the number one cup emptier and depleter is not being present. It's thinking about what I didn't do, think about, oh, I shouldn't have said that, I shouldn't have done that. And it's thinking about the future, which isn't even here yet. So why are we plugging into it? So it's getting present and then, okay, I just dropped the kids off at school, or the kids are asleep, or the kids are detained Hand on heart, what's needed? And don't say. Don't say what do I want. That spins us like a whirling dervish. Say what do I need, and then you're tuning into presence and your energy. Oh, good, golly, I'm thirsty. I need a glass of water. Oh, I'm hungry. I haven't eaten what sounds good and nourishing. I want a handful of blueberries and a scoop of ice cream. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter, right? It's getting present. So, relationship with time, we think I'll do it later when I have time. And then I don't know about all of you. But then I find myself scrolling on my phone looking for connection, and that connection isn't going to come because I'm already unplugged from myself. So it's setting the phone down. All right, I only have a few moments before dinner. What must I do? Replace should with must.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 9:52

And you know what I really have been wanting to read. I'm going to read one line of my book club book. I'm going to read one stanza from a poetry book that I keep at my bedside. I think that what happens is we think, oh well, what I really want is to attend a yoga class, to get away for a retreat, to read a book, to go out to lunch or dinner with girlfriends. But if we make it more accessible and name it as a value. I need connection. I'm going to get that through calling a friend or reading a poem. I need solitude. I'm going to get that by stepping outside. So it's just breaking it down to your values, kayla, and making it easy, accessible and just right now, in the moment, not making it big and elaborate like, right, I'm going to write that book when I have time. No, I'm going to write 10 minutes right now.

Kayla Huszar: 10:52

Yes, yes, I love this for so many reasons. As a neurodivergent parent of neurodivergent, highly sensitive children, whose partner works away, who runs her business. There are so many creative solutions that I I'm naturally a creative person. As an expressive arts therapist, I just like everything, spews creativity out of me. Um, squirrel moment. I was in a session with a client yesterday. We were talking and talking and the very end, here's what she says to me. The whole time we were talking, I was curious how you were going to make this into a metaphor. It's like the ninth hour was like we had five minutes left. I could feel it in my bones. I was like trying to connect this to the other stories that she's told me, just all these things. Then, all of a sudden, it was like oh my gosh, this makes so much sense, and I said it out loud. I couldn't believe it. She was like I was waiting. I was waiting for the moment that you would turn this into a metaphor.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 12:02

I love it. And did you come up with a metaphor at the end? I did yeah.

Kayla Huszar: 12:08

Yeah, it was. So. It was so timely and so hilarious. It brought all of the tension down from the, from the stress of the story, because my metaphor was kind of silly and so silly but pointed, and so it brought the tension down from from her busyness, from those stories that we tell ourselves about time, about energy, about capacity, about what I can and cannot control, and and it brought a lightness to it which allowed her to think about it in a more playful way and that in itself provided the solution that she was looking for. That's great.

Kayla Huszar: 12:50

So, as somebody who is very creative and also, admittedly, very busy, these small moments of connection or I think, I think something that's really important that a lot of my clients say. That I say to them is it's not about the thing that you choose to do. Sometimes it's about the thing that you choose not to do, which is picking up the phone, which is scrolling for hours. I mean, I could say journaling. Journaling, scientifically, is really beneficial for your brain and your body, but, realistically, sometimes it's about the absence of just scrolling or adding stimulation. Right, it's so.

Kayla Huszar: 13:40

I love this idea of thinking about it like oh, I would really love three days of being alone in my own home with my own thoughts, following all of my urges. But if that's not possible, maybe I can step outside for five minutes and just close the door. Maybe I can put my headphones on while I'm taking a bath this afternoon, I'm taking a bath this afternoon. Maybe I can um, set my kids up with a, with a game at the table, and I put in my earbuds and listen to a song like exactly, yeah, and I have a lot of life coaching clients who also are neurodivergent.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 14:22

They share with me their ADHD and their distraction and we can and we can use that as our excuse. Right, and no ill intent with me saying that. But yes, I saw that you had started the chapter squirrel girlfriend, girlfriend. I invented the squirrel brain. I get it Absolutely. So it's having that love for yourself, even though I have ADHD, even though I have a thousand things going on in my mind, even though I get easily distracted. I have to do that a lot to myself. Jenny, it's okay that you're acting like a squirrel. I love you, squirrel, okay, squirrel.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 15:12

What's the one nut right now that you can just give 30 seconds to? Maybe it's telling yourself that you're lovable. Maybe it's drinking that glass of water? Yeah, maybe we don't have five minutes to step outside. So what? We have 30 seconds to say what must happen, and maybe it's just standing still, and that's the other thing.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 15:38

About time, kayla, we think that we have to get everything done in order to be a good mom, in order to be a good human. I've got to do all this, but that goes to our energy, which is contagious. Maybe really what we need is to stand and plug in, so then we ripple out a calm energy. I say to my clients breathe the way you want to feel. They're like I've got so much fucking stuff going on, I can't, I can't, and it's like just pause. Yes, you can just just pause. That then ripples out. You know, I wish I would have had these tools when my son, who's now 20, was little and finally I learned. I learned that what de-escalates him is me just standing still. Do you have that connection as well? Do you get it? I see you applauding.

Kayla Huszar: 16:44

Tell me more um, my, my oldest um, has a very strong-ed personality with very high emotions that come out of his body and recently, through a lot of my own self regulation that can lend to co-regulation, not in every moment, but in some, when I just stand there or sit down, even like if I change, I get lower to the ground or I, because if I'm standing and he's sitting, that's still like a power play, like psychologically, and so if I get lower to the ground and join him in it, but but bringing calm, not matching the energy, bringing silence and reassurance and attuning, attuning to the to the moment, noticing if, if I reach out my hand to him, is, is he wanting? Is he pulling away? Is that what he? Is that what he needs? Or does he need me to be further back but also still present? Um, does he need me to be further back but also still present? Um, does he need me to walk away completely? Is? Is that really what he needs in this moment?

Kayla Huszar: 17:59

Because he is old enough now that um, I'm not worried about like safety or you know those kinds of things, um, and so if I bring myself lower to the ground, my motto is just add water. I just like bring his water bottle and just put it close to him. You can't be dysregulated and swallowing or chewing at the same time, and so it's just. You just add it as an, because if I asked him he would say no, buddy, do you need some water? He'd be like no, no, I don't want water. I'm having a feeling. Let me feel it.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 18:33

Lady, don't talk to me Like hush hush with you and your.

Kayla Huszar: 18:36

H2O. So it's just an invitation here's, here's, here's your water here's your favorite stuffy.

Kayla Huszar: 18:43

Here's your fidget. You know we're, we're here, we're here. So so you know I'm okay If if you're not okay, you know like it's okay that you're not okay. And so the I had a somatic therapist teach me how to notice the words and the tone and the speed of of the, the energy, the words, the breath coming up and out of my body. And I'm not perfect at it, imperfect parent. There are a lot of times that I have escalated things. But when I'm able to notice pause, silence, notice the volume, the speed and the tone coming out of here, I am adding a change of speed to the meltdown or to the scenario. Lovely, and that really helps.

Kayla Huszar: 19:47

Again, it's hard to capture a parenting moment on a podcast. In the intricacies and the nuance and the struggles I have, the struggles he has, the environment in which we live, it's hard to name all of those things that are happening. But if I am filling my own cup, if I am paying attention to the connection with myself, if I am attuning to the moment and bringing my best that day, which is sometimes 20%, sometimes it's 70, sometimes it's 20. If I can bring just one cog less of the intensity that they have, I'm part of changing the scenario or the environment.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 20:44

Absolutely, you're being that ripple. May I offer something that helped my son and I? Yes, please. So he didn't want to go to school. So he didn't want to go to school. He didn't want to go to school every day, every day. My son cried every day from age two to 11. So we had to figure out some things. Um, when he was eight, he saw a therapist for a year. His MD told him oh honey, you're just wired like a girl Naturopath. Yes, I see the eye rolls, don't you worry. Yes, naturopath diet. Nothing was helping.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 21:26

So we would walk to the school bus and I would say honey, what do you need today? And I was inviting him to come up with his own internal pausing and to connect to a word which we called an anchor. So my meditation practice. At that time I thought about meditating for years, and then a decade really, and I didn't start until I was 40. So now I'm 16 years into this practice. Still, I can be a squirrel to get there, but like I told you in the beginning, sitting up pillow behind the back, I'm there. So I took note. After my meditation I would then say what do I need today? And I would let these words rise up. So I took record for three years of his words and of my words, and then I created a mindfulness deck. You may have already read about it in my book that you're reading, but it's just an anchored deck of 70 words on the seven different chakras.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 22:29

Right so, but we didn't have the deck yet. It was honey. What do you need?

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 22:32

And he would say strength, joy, peace, gratitude. He said gratitude a lot. Strength and gratitude were kind of his top two contenders. So I then would carry out that practice at the end of the day, and we'd be saying goodnight and tucking him in and having our time together. And I'd say how did strength and gratitude work for you today? And he said oh, mom, it was great.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 22:56

On the playground, when nobody wanted to play with me, I just remembered that I'm strong. And when my teacher wasn't understanding me, I just, I just got quiet and still and I I found my own joy. So I just bring this up to offer. You don't have to have a deck, but we can teach our kids. What do you need right now?

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 23:18

Because we attach to a word. You know, I'm tired, I'm lazy, I'm unlovable, I'm slow, I'm this, I'm that, and then that becomes the air we're breathing. But if we say, hmm, I'm patient, and then that becomes the air we're breathing. But if we say, I'm patient, even if you're working on it, I am joy, I am peace. Breathing that way you want to feel, connecting to a word. Obviously you don't want to offer this to him right in the moment, but teaching that practice of what word do you want to anchor to today? That can be a great way for us to plug in as adults, as women, as humans, but then also somebody to teach our kids. What do you want to plug into today? You know you're nervous about that friend. That isn't being nice to you. You and the teacher are butting heads. So what do you want to plug into? Just giving that door of hope and possibility and that they can control. What can they control? They control can control what they think and what they feel what they think and what they feel.

Kayla Huszar: 24:38

Yes, yes. And what I love about? I'm going to show it again. What I love about your book is how actionable it is, and, as a social worker and as a human supporting other humans, I have read a lot of books. I am an avid reader. I love reading and learning and getting real, actionable skills for my clients, because when they are in the thick of it, when they are so anxious they are contemplating not getting out of bed or they are so dysregulated they are, they are equally, at the same time, knowing that they are causing harm and not wanting to cause harm, and so there's like all kinds of shame wrapped up in this cycle of I need to be regulated, I want to be regulated. This is my goal, but I don't. I literally don't know how to do it. My body is so wound up I can't even access it.

Kayla Huszar: 25:33

What I love about your beautiful stories is that every chapter has an actionable step and an invitation. And try this on. Let's experiment with this. See how this feels. Not for three days, not for three hours, just for like five minutes, for 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Could you stand in front of the mirror and say I am lovable, or my word today is presence. Presence doesn't mean patience, or calm, or regulated or any of those things. It just means that I'm, I'm going to try to be in this body, in in this moment I'm going to. For me, my mantra is like I'm going to bring my brain and my body into the same space because, like you said, we, the squirrel brain, can be like like 20 steps in that direction and maybe in, in in that direction and maybe that one too, and and so bringing bringing the body and the mind into the same place sometimes is all I can do in in a day. That's that's all I can ask of myself is just to practice going in that direction and coming back.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 26:53

And that's enough. And that's enough. Like we're programmed thinking that we have to do more. No, that's enough. And the reason why that's enough, kayla, is that back to that energy. That's what our children will cellularly in their cells talking about regulation. That's what they will remember. I didn't grow up with that so I didn't. I didn't do that when my kids were little. Yeah, not, no blame.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 27:28

No blame on the parents yeah, right, that was that okay. So maybe that was my gift growing up not being regulated, not having stability, not being emotionally supported, being emotionally abandoned, abandoned. Maybe that was my gift, so then I could learn um what I needed um and then learn what I needed um, and then learn what I can then give to my people.

Kayla Huszar: 27:56

Yes, yes, it was one of the hardest lessons I have I have had to reflect on is exactly that. What is this hard part, this stuck place here to, to teach me.

Kayla Huszar: 28:14

And and not in a way of self-torture or, you know like, not not in in that way, but in this way of okay this. If I accept this reality, if I accept that I did not receive these things from the parents or the caregivers or the caregivers or the guardians who did their absolute best, how do I then put the pieces together so that I can move through it, move past it, whatever the words are, in that healing, transformation, change? How do I take what I know, what feels stuck or incomplete or hurting, wounding inside of me, and do something with it so that I can change it, alter it, maybe have a smidgey of a chance of not passing that on to the tiny people in my life?

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 29:13

You said a word that's really important for us to highlight teach. Our teachers are always right in front of us and those lessons right. When I do mini retreats and we're in a circle, I share with them what I learned from my mentor years ago at a writing retreat your warrior is on your left, your healer is on your right, your teacher is in front of you and you are the visionary. So, and then Carolyn Mace I don't know if you follow her, she is also another. She's a medical, intuitive and incredible modern day mystic and teacher. And unless, unless the person or the lesson is right in front of you, it's not yours, that can also help with presence.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 30:07

You know, someone fell over here. We think that we've got to go help them. It's right in front of you and that person maybe who's unraveling your child right in front of you. That's the lesson. And often when my son was unraveling right in front of me and then I was unraveling right in front of him, right, it was right there. We were being each other's teachers, and so I love that you offered the word teach and yeah, if we just pause and stop, the lessons and everything we need is right within us and in front of us.

Kayla Huszar: 30:49

Oh yes, and I love this visual no-transcript. And then teacher right in front of you, and then you're the visionary. And what colors or shapes or sounds beautiful. Come come with that Cause immediately. I had a vision when you said warrior. Like I had a visual, come come into my brain what was the color?

Kayla Huszar: 31:39

like red and gold and um like kind of flowy, not um, not warrior, like uh, um, like armor. It was more like um, like a softness of red and gold blending kind of together and feeling, feeling soft but strong that was. That was immediately what kind of came to me in that, in that, just that word, the word alone.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 32:10

Right, that's a beautiful thing about words, right. Right, that's a beautiful thing about words, right. Can I quickly interject about the color? Yes, because I love that. That's where your brain went to me and I could be wrong. I'm immediately thinking of root chakra, which is your first chakra, which is about belonging, groundedness, connectedness, and then gold isn't necessarily in there, but that could be related to the white that crown chakra. So I just loved, I love your visual. That's beautiful. It's it's it's not um, for not right. It's incredibly powerful. I love what you do. I love, I love that you use creativity to teach, to grow, to heal. It's beautiful, okay.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 32:58

So, I interrupted you, so you were. You had the warrior going.

Kayla Huszar: 33:01

Yeah, and then the the right. Can you remind me what that word was again, yeah, healer, healer. Healer was like, uh, like a soft blue with some like pink undertones. I'm not quite sure of the shape of it yet, but the speed of it feels kind of like a river like. There are like kind of slow, smooth parts and then there can be like some rapid parts, like some fast flowing, some like energy and fun and risk flowing, some like energy and fun and risk, um, and and it goes through these like a river would like kind of ebb and flow through different terrain, um, but always kind of staying with that blue over color and the kind of the pink undertone, um, kind of like a rose quartz color, kind of yeah.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 33:58

Gorgeous, gorgeous, yeah. Whenever I think that we get a visual, an image, a color or an animal, you know that comes to us, it's. Whatever those things represent are also our fuel, our healing. Yeah, and the blue could either be that third eye chakra or it could be the throat chakra of speaking your truth. Yeah, I can also represent heart. Yeah.

Kayla Huszar: 34:29

Yes, I often when I'm doing body scans and associating color or shape or movement to them.

Kayla Huszar: 34:38

There is often blue in here, which is a lifelong lesson that I relearn at every new phase of adulting parenting, lifing, partnering around voice, and how important it is not only to speak, but sometimes, especially in these moments of parenting, is learning when, not to, when, when you need to not say the thing that makes you sound like your own parent or your own, your own generation, your own generation, right of elder. It's that like this will not be helpful and you will see the tears or the fear or the feeling mirrored back to you. You know how you felt, maybe, when that thing was said to you. And so, not only learning to speak when those moments arrive, but also learning to not in those moments when I might be adding to the escalation, when I might be bringing my unraveling right, that pausing, that learning of these words will not land as an adult. I understand them, I understand the lesson I'm trying to teach, but the words will not land for the tiny person standing in front of me Silence is empowering.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 36:12

We forget that I had a client who would say I pick up my kid from school and they don't talk to me. And then I ask what else is going on and I gently say, maybe if you stop talking they might then speak up. Right? Yes, silence, as the saying goes, speaks volumes. Yes, and another thing that silence can do, kayla it leaves room for the wisdom to get in. We busy our minds and then, once we still them and get quiet, that's when we hear the wisdom, and that's the same with our children. When we silence our voice, we can let them hear their own wisdom.

Kayla Huszar: 37:16

Yeah, so so much amazing wisdom for all stages of parenting. In this conversation with you, jenny, I appreciate your wisdom as a parent of older children. I appreciate your vulnerability in admitting that not all of these practices did you know or do when your children were little or do when your children were little. The admission that there were imperfect moments of your own unraveling and that your relationship with your children is still intact.

Kayla Huszar: 37:43

I think a lot of a lot of my clients who are in the stages of five and under, because of the increase of social media and the narratives that we get thrown out from all different walks of life, is that we will somehow do irreparable damage in those younger years when we don't have access to tools or we can't afford certain supports at this moment, or whatever that looks like. And attachment is a lifelong experience. It is, yes, the first three years are important. Yes, the first five years are important. We know that based on brain research, but we also know that healing and repair and an attachment to our children and to ourselves has an ebb and flow to it through our entire lives, and so I just, I just thank you for taking up space in the online world and that you have. You have, you have shared this wisdom for others so freely and so willingly.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 39:04

No, you are incredibly welcome. It is my joy and my honor and I had a lot of fun chatting with you. If you ever want to do it again, let me know. This was just lovely and I love what you're doing in the of fun chatting with you. If you ever want to do it again, let me know. This was just lovely and I love what you're doing in the world. So thank you.

Kayla Huszar: 39:20

Thank you so much and, yes, I would love, love to have another conversation with you. Maybe we can pick a new chapter, to do it New, a new ritual or a new fuel, yes, a different way, the creative ways in which we can fill our cups that sometimes we can't see, because what we really want is the three-day retreat, is the three-day silence. But how do we break that down in the modern way in which we live? And how do we break that down in in the modern, in the modern way in which we live, and how can we maybe facilitate that? Just, little, little by little for ourselves, as opposed to waiting and wishing for that three day thing, that seven day thing, that time when we can finally be alone or silent.

Kayla Huszar: 40:10

Or you know, my kids are 15. That's finally when I'll take up knitting when I have time. Or you know, my kids are 15. That's finally when I'll take up knitting when I have time. Or you know, like, can you just knit one, one stitch today? You know, can you just start? Can you look at knitting online instead of scrolling, can you? You know, can you go to the yarn store and just touch it and feel it, even though you don't have enough time for it, right?

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 40:32

Exactly. Even though we think we want that three-day retreat or that knitting class, there might be something else that can be just as fueling and life-giving and cup filling um in a in a shorter amount. Yeah, we want those longer things when we're burned out, because we're desperate, we're incredibly desperate, we think there's no other way. But if we just sit up in bed, start the day and I just wanted to add, if you get woken up by your child, bring them onto your lap and say before I can be present with you, I need five seconds of quiet. Will you be quiet with me? Yeah, this was fun. Let's do it again. Thank you so much.

Kayla Huszar: 41:20

Thank you so much, Jenny. I appreciate you and we'll be in touch about follow up from the podcast and and scheduling in another session, because this was not enough time to go over all the things.

Jenny Gwinn McGlothern: 41:32

Okay, well, let's let's do it, and I wrote the chapters small and short, so we've got 56 of them, but they're small. Yeah, thanks so much. You be well, okay, cheers.