Motherhood and Identity: How to Be a More Mindful Mom

This episode invites parents to shift their mindset from chaos to joy by embracing mindfulness and playfulness in their daily routines. Through insightful conversation, we explore techniques to create space for connection, the importance of intentional pauses, and how redefining our perspectives can foster deeper joy and satisfaction in parenting. 

• Creating space for aliveness and joy 
• Navigating challenging emotional conversations 
• The power of communication and collaboration in parenting 
• Shifting focus from problems to joyful moments 
• Daily rituals to promote mindfulness and self-care 
• Redefining standards of parenting and embracing imperfection

Chapters

• 0:00 Parenting Mindfully
• 10:11 Creating Positive Habits for Parents
• 25:52 Parenting With Creativity and Freedom
• 36:53 Choosing Intention and Joy

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Oh, I'm so glad to be here with Jenny again. Hi, hello, oh, my gosh. Jenny just asked me before we hit record if I wanted to pull some cards. Okay, and I'm going to. I'm going to lay it out for you guys the cards that were chosen by me through the wifi and Jenny picked them from her her little hands for a weight, play and embrace.

Speaker 1: 0:26

And this is so fitting. This is so fitting for what each Jenny and I try to communicate through all of our avenues, whatever they happen to be, is to be intentional, to be in the moment, and I know that we can't always right, but like to be here to embrace what needs embracing. And two questions that she asked me in response to this are really hitting me. Where am I closing my eyes and where can I be more light?

Speaker 1: 1:09

And, in this season of life, where I am right now is creating more space, more aliveness, more aliveness, more play, more giddiness in my life, to make space between me and the things that feel like they're right here, they're right, pressed up against your face, the things that that piss me off, the things that that I feel like I can't do, the things that I feel like I have no choice in is I am trying to practice moving the things that feel like they're right in front of me, like I can't see anything else, to create more space between me and that thing that might be frustrating, that thing that might be hard, that thing that might be that needs tending to for sure. But how do I make space between me and that thing and add in more of what makes me feel alive or what makes me feel joyful, or that allows play or spontaneity?

Speaker 2: 2:13

And it begins with a breath. You ask how can I give that space? You could give yourself permission to pause, to then ask yourself that question and let the answer arise. And I bet, kayla, that everyone, everyone, me, all of us listening can benefit from asking ourselves where am I closing my eyes, where am I blocking the light, where am I not being willing to be more light, more joyful, more playful? Yeah, thank you for being so willing to begin that way. I created this mindfulness deck when my son was little, and now he's 20 and it helps my clients and it helps little, and now he's 20 and it helps my clients and it helps me every single day. So there you go.

Speaker 1: 3:17

Thanks for starting with a game. It's like we're on a game show, yes, yes. And for somebody who has ADHD, who is parenting at least one with ADHD married to an ADHD person, the more that I can gamify my life, the better. Everybody else is right what I'm learning and my oldest is getting. He's so emotionally intelligent but still little you know. And so the other day he said to me Jenny, I feel like all you do is pick on the things that I do wrong and had.

Speaker 1: 3:56

Had I not had some self-care rituals, you know, leading up to this moment, I probably would have said something really mean like, well, yeah, you do a lot of shit wrong and yeah, it's really easy to get dressed in the morning, but you can't seem to handle it. So I have to be all over you to get it done Right, because that's not that's naturally what I want to say. And I have to pause. My clients ask me this all the time how do I go from a moment that's triggering, from reactive to responsive? And I always say there is this magic, there is this magic moment. It could be half a second, 30 seconds, a full minute. You don't have to respond right away, even if things are heightened, right.

Speaker 1: 4:41

So in this moment he shared this with me and I took it in and I said, wow, that really hurts. That's how you feel from my communication. And I said something like how can I do better, how can I show up differently to this? And he was so deep in feeling crappy about himself that he said you're not doing anything wrong. I'm probably still the one who has to, you know, get dressed in the morning and do all the things on time, and la la la. So I let him get that out. But then eventually he said it bothers me when in my brain I've already decided to do something and then you ask me to do it. It feels like I'm doing it wrong or I'm not smart enough, or I'm not doing it on your timeline or whatever, right. So he's like busy playing in his own world and I'm like, hey, buddy, can you go get dressed? He doesn't hear it like that, he hears it as could you fucking go get dressed. You're wasting your time right.

Speaker 2: 5:43

How beautiful that he was able to articulate that with you. This reminds me of conversations with my son when he was your son's aide. Beautiful, and you also. You responded you didn't react. To react is to co-create with what's negative, to amplify that negativity. You responded so yeah, so keep having that dialogue with him of or I'm gonna ask you something, what's the best way to ask?

Speaker 1: 6:10

and he's gonna keep changing and he's it's gonna change all the time, right. So what we settled on? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So what we settled on was like a hand on the bath and an invitation to look at the clock. That was what we settled on. That's gorgeous, because he's thinking I got 20 minutes Chill out, mom, right, like I can get dressed and brush my teeth in 20 minutes. And you're thinking but have you?

Speaker 2: 6:36

But do you have you? Yeah, this is great. Oh, strong work, mama, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:51

It was this beautiful moment that amalgamates all of the things that I have experienced as a human, as a parent, into okay. I can pause in this moment, even if he was still nattering on or still you, you know, maybe it turned mean or even like vicious towards me in some way.

Speaker 2: 7:09

I don't have to respond until I feel like my response would come from the place that I intend to be as a parent, there you go and you've got to give yourself spaciousness to do that and time and I know that we're always feeling rushed and we're always trying to beat the clock, but slow is better. Yeah, giving that time to and even saying it sounds like your son is already on board with this, but some other parents might need to hear this Even saying please give me a second to figure out how I want to respond. Thank you, yes, give me a second.

Speaker 1: 7:51

Yeah, I've heard you. Thank you Like. I've heard you. Message received.

Speaker 2: 7:56

I need a minute to process that Like yeah, and I want to circle it back real quickly to the beginning of your intention and asking for the words. When we ask how can I be lighter, how can I have my eyes more open, I believe the universe is going to give you lots and lots and lots of opportunities to practice that. So you've opened the door and probably, kayla, after we get off the phone and later today when you're with your kids, it's probably going to be oh yeah, oh. I need to text Jenny and tell her that there were three times when I was able to open my eyes and three opportunities to choose lightness. We have choice all day long. Yeah, and that is the beauty of our children. They give us first they're our teachers and then, second, they give us all these opportunities to practice all these things that we already are and we're working on becoming.

Speaker 1: 9:00

Yes, yes, absolutely coming. Yes, yes, absolutely. Jenny, what would you say to someone who is listening right now and having the internal dialogue of oh yeah, well, that's nice, but I can't access that. I don't have the time or the resources or I'm not skilled in these ways?

Speaker 2: 9:24

Lovingly say that's an excuse. I'd ask you what you need. Do you need a hug or do you need me to just listen? And then I would say, try and say, let's put a tool in your back pocket and maybe that tool is trust Trust that you do have the ability and the bandwidth in your back pocket. And maybe that tool is trust Trust that you do have the ability and the bandwidth and the skill. Perhaps it's being imprinted on you because of your childhood, and so I invite that individual listening to to plug in to their desire.

Speaker 2: 10:11

So for a really long time, my desire was to be peaceful, right, and I'd be yelling at the kids, but yet I had this desire. So it just I started meditating. Okay, you say I don't have time to meditate, start with 10 seconds I think we may have talked about this the last time and then start with 30 and just commit. Commit to the change that you desire. Does that answer the question? Yes, so just try that. That excuse down. I get it. It's a legitimate excuse, but the excuse isn't serving you anymore. When are you willing to let the excuse go? And when you say, not resource, you don't have resources. I want you to start noticing listener, that every time someone does give you an offer of help, hey, I'll pick up the kids. Hey, you don't have to do that thing, I'll do it for you. And instead of pushing that help away, say thank you and receive it.

Speaker 2: 11:17

Sure, and maybe you're doing this on your own. You're a single parent and you don't have any support and and you're fricking tired and um, start with getting to bed early and getting sleep for you. You've got a kid that wakes you up in the middle of the night. Well, try and put your feet up during the day. Figure out the top priorities that you need to be on for your children and give yourself those type priorities. Maybe the house is messy, but you're rested. Maybe you're missing appointments, but you're rested and you're eating enough and you're drinking a lot of water. It's the basic things that help fill us and fuel us to be on for our kids and be patient and trust. The unfolding is what I would say.

Speaker 1: 12:19

Yes, I would add to that Something's coming to me. When I took a business course from one of my favorite music therapists, who built her business when a time when, like 25 years ago, when creativity was as foreign as like going for a run in the 1980s, right, like these, these things that we now feel like are normal, were so not normal like even a couple of decades ago. Right, and in this business, training and I have used this a lot personally is are you giving your level 10 problem level 10 attention? And it's so spoke to me in my, in this, this stuck place. I was in my business because I was not giving it level 10 attention. Well, I was. I was bitching, I was moaning, I was, I was taking up all of this space with all of the ways that it was wrong or hard or stuck, and it took a very intentional reframe, a very intentional recalibration to okay.

Speaker 1: 13:22

So this is a problem. I can leave it, I can let it fester. I can choose to do something about it. I can choose to do something and fail miserably. I can reach out to someone to help me with this problem. They may or may not help, but I can do something with it. I can choose to do something and fail miserably. I can reach out to someone to help me with this problem. They may or may not help, but I can do something with it. I can change the way I feel about it, the way I'm thinking about it, the way I'm showing up to it. Or I can just put it in a jar up on the shelf and say level 10 problem. I can't focus on you anymore, I can't give you any more attention. You refuse to change. So I'm just going to put you up on the shelf for a while and I'm going to focus on something else.

Speaker 2: 13:55

I like it? Yeah, absolutely. Also, where we put our attention, that thing gets bigger. So if you're saying I don't have enough resources, I don't have enough time, no one's helping me, that amplifies. And I don't know if any of the listeners have this I had this, it's I wanted to. I want to get this parenting thing right.

Speaker 2: 14:24

I had a miserable upbringing. In my memory, in my mind, my parents did not give me what I needed. So I move on from that. And you start asking then what your kids, when they get to an age, and even three and four and five you can still have these conversations. You know what are you needing from me? But you also put down the measuring stick and you get present and you know I gosh, I don't have regrets, but I I wonder how my 23 year old and 21, or almost 21 in the summer 21 year old would turn, would have turned out if the house was always messy. Maybe they'd be a little more relaxed, who knows? But just start where you are, don't have regrets. Start where you are, embrace yourself every morning, have that be your non-negotiable telling yourself I love you, mama, I'm here for you, you're safe, and then attending to what you can and to where you can put your attention.

Speaker 1: 15:42

That is one of the life quite seriously life-changing experiences from our last podcast was when you shared with me that you sit up in the morning and you have this morning ritual of, like I am here, I am loved. Whatever the affirmation, is that day right? Just this like connection with self before you are in the rat race, before the baby starts crying, or even during the baby's crying. I mean you know, like again that like there can be five seconds, there can be 10 seconds for you before you jump out of bed and do all of the things. Um, when, when I when it was just me and my oldest I had this rhythm.

Speaker 1: 16:30

I was reading the Artist's Way and I had this rhythm in the morning where, as soon as I started to gain consciousness, I would turn on a headspace meditation and then I would journal for as long as I could until he woke up and I could hear his little pitter patter coming down the hall, and he was probably about three. Sometimes he was already in bed with me and so it was just a matter of like, very low on volume, or sometimes I would even have my headphones next to my bed and just turning the lamp on just one little degree and journaling. Sometimes he would like scribble with me. It's like the most. It was the most beautiful way to start the day.

Speaker 1: 17:13

And then when I had my second, of course things went crazy and it was the pandemic and it was survival mode. But I remember those mornings with such fondness that I've been thinking a lot about bringing it back, but I haven't implemented it yet. I don't know what's in my way, probably some kind of excuse I need to put down and stop scrolling till all hours of the night. That morning rhythm for me, whether it was five seconds before he started to say, mommy, I'm hungry, mommy, I need to go pee, whatever. If it was five seconds or five minutes to say, mommy, I'm hungry, mommy, I need to go pee, whatever. If it was five seconds or five minutes, it made a difference.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Yes. So, kayla, you already asked yourself the question and I will ask it in a different way. The way you start a new habit is to replace it with one that you want to get rid of. So, whether it's morning or night you mentioned scrolling, you mentioned that's an evening thing what do you want to replace with your old life-giving habit instead and you don't have to answer now, but I ask that to the listener too Like, as you're building new habits, you know it's the new year, right? I don't believe in resolutions, but I believe in intention. So pick a word, pick a theme. Instead, ask yourself how do you want to feel? Who do you want to be? And before I even allow you space to answer the question, I'll share with you the end of my year.

Speaker 2: 18:55

I've really been wanting to be a walker and a reader, and I have been hitting the bed each night oh, I didn't walk, oh, I didn't read. And I bring my book out of the living room every morning and I sit down with it, with my tea, and I meditate first, and then lots of practice of just not even opening the pages. So I now can call myself a reader, I think, since October is when I started this and it's even just 10 minutes, and if it doesn't happen in the morning, it happens before I cook dinner. And then I started. Our car broke down. The car that I drive broke down, and so I started walking a mile and a half away to where I row at a gym it's called Row House. And then I was like, oh my gosh, it's a mile and a half each way round trip three miles. I'm having so much fun, even in the rain, because I live in Seattle, being out in this fresh air in November and December and January. I'm going to keep doing this. So now I call myself a walker.

Speaker 2: 20:03

So, instead of a resolution, think about things and you've already got your thing that you're talking about and that is on your heart. Think about how you want to be. You want to be a journaler. You want to be a morning doodler. You want to be a morning prayer, a morning meditator. You want to be a nighttime Zen artist. You know whatever it is. And then there's no magic. You just do it. You show up, you just do it. You do it one day, you mark it off on the calendar. You do it the next day. You mark it off on the calendar. You have notes to remind yourself that you can see the. Oh yeah, I wanted to do that.

Speaker 1: 20:43

Yes, yes, get a priority. My word for 2025 is recalibrate. For 2025 is recalibrate oh, I like that. Recalibrate has a bunch of subcategories, but in general, it's recalibrate. It's recalibrate how I am running my business, as in slowing down, taking on less projects, giving myself more time for rest and fun and play more time for rest and fun and play. Recalibrate how I show up in my home, in my family, for my kids, and so they're all interconnected, right.

Speaker 1: 21:22

If I was to make one of those like mind maps that we all used to do in high school, you put the thing in the middle and all of the offshoots like recalibrates in the middle, and there's all of these offshoots, and so the recalibrating in work allows me more space in my life and more time for creative pursuit, more time for I really love making resources for my clients, like making them on the spot. Because I'm an expressive arts therapist, a lot of what I do is really like in the moment, in response to what's going on, and I have this notebook full of resources that haven't seen the light of day and I want to spend time putting those resources out into the world and utilizing them, and I make all kinds of things for my, for my kids, like morning checklists, like little um, achievement, progress things. And so recalibrate. Recalibrate to to what brings me joy, to what, what life can and and what I want it to be.

Speaker 1: 22:33

We've survived a year of my husband working a camp job. So for those who don't know, it means that he is like I drive him to the airport. He's gone for a week and he comes back and he's home for a week and he loves it and we me, as an only child. I also love it because it gives me time to be alone, to be with myself, to just for me and the kid. But there are times when it's not fun and nobody is coming home at six o'clock, like for days, right. And so, recalibrating to what I need to show up to this so that our kids get the best of both of us.

Speaker 2: 23:20

That's beautiful, and your new habit that you're starting either today or tomorrow is in full alignment with that word. Every morning, it's an opportunity to recalibrate. Yes, what's today about as you journal? That's lovely. May I share my words, please? So I don't use my anchored deck. I spend the month of December journaling and reflecting. You know those questions I said earlier how do I want to feel? Who do I want to be? So this is the first year in about 10 or 12 years or more of doing this where I chose three, and so the three are agency, rising and harmony. So my theme is personal agency rising in harmony, getting out of my own way, elevating my vibration and being at peace and being in harmony. Oh, I haven't spoken that out. I'm, I have a sub stack and I have my blog and I'm working on creating articles for both of those places this week. So I haven't like fully written it out, but it feels good, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:38

I can sense that, as like as the words are coming off of you, just like your posture, just even the way that your face is softening, there was, there was like alignment there. There was like this. This feels like it serves me in this moment.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Thank you for reflecting that Thank you. Yeah, do you ask your kids if they have an intention or theme or idea or word for the year?

Speaker 1: 25:10

You know, I haven't my partner based on this job. He was gone from Christmas Eve to New Year's Eve and then when he got home, we hosted a bunch of his family, cause he missed, you know, like a whole week of of things and and then I dropped him off again on Tuesday to go back to work. So, really, um, in terms of that reflection time with the kids, haven't I haven't had an opportunity to even share with them what my you know what my word is, but I am, I am hoping, um, in the next couple of weeks we'll have a, we'll have a little sit down and and reflect on that. On the weekend we actually brought out a bunch of like collage material and we all just made like a like a collage, just for fun. Really, mine was a bit of utilizing the recalibrate as as my expression.

Speaker 1: 26:08

I had a bit more of an intention, but the kids more just picked pictures of animals and things that they, that they loved and and put it on there and um, so I I like to provide lots of opportunities for creativity and play Um, cause I think it's really, I think it's really important. My kids, I will believe, to their teachers, dismay, like, challenge their teachers on what art is supposed to be and and what I will deem appropriate. But oh, my son made his teacher, made him redo this santa, three times, three, three times, please don't say don't I know please don't say redo and teacher in the same sentence so he made it was like a gift for us, like it was the Christmas craft or whatever for us.

Speaker 1: 27:00

And he made he made the Santa with like gray. It was like a gray skin tone and then like different colored eyes and like a red toque or a blue toque or something. And his teacher was like, well, your mom probably won't like that. And I was like, well, well, first of all, please don't make assumptions about what I will be okay with and what I won't be okay with. And I was like, well, well, first of all, please don't make assumptions about what I will be okay with and what I won't be okay with. And second of all, didn't you just ask him to make a snowman and I'm pretty sure he delivered or Santa, I'm pretty sure he delivered in making Santa Like isn't this art, this is not science, this is not exact measurements.

Speaker 1: 27:42

Well, that makes me so sad. So I was like I kept my cool in conversation with him and I just said, if you want to advocate for yourself and you want me to help you, walk you through those words, I can help you with that. But he already knows, like he already knows because, I mean, I've been in, I've had expressive arts therapy training for most of his life, so he knows. I'm like there's no wrong way to do this, there's no right way to do this, there's no right way to do this. He already knows.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Like he wouldn't have felt confident to make the Santa, like he did, had, like it would have been proper, right and proper, um. And so anyway, he did, he redid it one other time and then I don't know what happened with that one. And so I just checked in with him and I said, do you want me to follow up? Like is this causing you distress? Like what? And he's like no, whatever, she just wants me to do it this proper way. And so, whatever, I'm just going to do it.

Speaker 1: 28:30

And I was like OK, fine, but they know, they know to say things, you know, to their teachers. Like, well, if you haven't told me a proper way to do it then like this is this is how it came out of me, this is how we do it, right, we? We have all kinds of bad, what people would consider bad art and coloring outside the lines and all the things. I on purpose color outside the lines because it's like an act of defiance about perfectionism, yeah, and so anyway, beautiful, like to color out, so he's having this experience at school and I'm like, oh my god, and I get it, I get it.

Speaker 1: 29:09

I have had teachers in my life who are also stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are trying to assess fine motor skills and um of the assignment, like all the things I get, all the things that are happening in the background. The thing that just breaks my heart for all students who have art that's graded, or play or drama or voice that's like graded presentations is that it unintentionally just dampens all of that original shuts them down.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Yeah, creative spirit yeah, right, yeah, well, thankfully you are their mom and you can show another side and they get to choose to believe that, teacher or not. You're making me think of the topic and we kind of mentioned it at the very beginning, before we hit record is, you know, the holidays are over, we've packed them away. It's like, what do you want to bring with you? So hopefully your son will not bring with him? Um, coloring within the lines and proper ways of making a santa hat, um, but and that's also a reason why I don't like resolutions it's like I want to still carry the spirit of the season. So and you mentioned the word joy so like for me, that is the spirit of the season joy, joy and peace. And so, instead of just like packing it away whew, thank God, the holidays are over.

Speaker 2: 30:52

What part of the holidays didn't get enough time? And I love it. Your husband had that week. You know that he was gone, so you guys are spreading it out and you're thinking about having a conversation later in the month. Yeah, there is no urgency towards when the new year begins. It's this is your new season and, yes, it's marked by the calendar. But I want all of the listeners to not feel a sense of oh well, I don't do morning pages and I haven't done this yet, and I haven't even thought about my word of the year. Give yourself time, expansive breath, give yourself breathing room and just wake up in the morning. And what is the priority today? What element of Christmas, what element of the holiday, do I want to carry with me today? I still want to play Christmas music, you know, if that gives you joy.

Speaker 1: 31:50

I still want to keep my twinkly lights up or I still want to keep out my favorite Christmas mug, whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Bring an ornament in the kitchen instead of on the tree. Yeah Right.

Speaker 1: 32:03

Right, there's like right before we hit record too, I was telling Jenny a story and if those of you follow me on Instagram you would have seen it in well when this comes out a few weeks ago about how I found a bowl when my husband and I were putting the Christmas stuff away and it's an Easter bowl and I don't think I've ever used it because it's just been in this box and we don't really decorate for Easter and I only have a handful of things. Anyway, they said to him well, I want to use this bowl. And he looked at me like what a stupid ass question. Like why are you even thinking? Like why is this even a question? Leave the bowl up, use the. This even a question. Leave the bowl up, use the bowl, whatever. Right. And here I am going through this whole process of like what's proper? It probably should be with the Easter stuff, where do I put it? Where do I keep it? And and he was just like Kayla, use the goddamn bowl. Yeah, like it was just. It wasn't like mean, it was just like why are you overthinking this man? Like you love the bowl, use the bowl, leave it out. It brings you joy. You want to eat yogurt out of it, just do it. And.

Speaker 1: 33:06

And so what I was saying to Jenny was and she she very eloquently was like what's proper, like what? What is proper in this situation? Right, if you had Christmas dishes in your regular dishes all year round, what is that not proper? Is that wrong and Is that wrong? And I think that lends itself to what you were saying, jenny, too, about being like a good parent, or the right parent, or the proper parent. Right. And if I can summarize, you know, everything that we've kind of talked about around being awake, being playful, embracing moments, is I myself. I can't speak for everybody else, but I know that I get in my own way. I almost put the bowl back in the box. Right, why, why? Why would I do that Allowance, this allowance of being messy, of being imperfect, of being the best version of yourself today, even if what you've got today is 30%, being vulnerable, being showing up with all of all of you, right, with all of you? The pursuit of proper, of good, of right, like you said, is like the measuring stick what, what is proper, what?

Speaker 2: 34:34

is right, yes, and if you can put that down, if you can put down the rules that you have inflicted on yourself to be that perfect parent, you will make more room for your intention, whether it's joy or lightness or peace, rigid barrier of yourself. Be tender, be loving, be gentle, be the way you want to be and, I imagine, are a lot of the time to your own children, to yourself.

Speaker 1: 35:23

So much energy going out, prescribed to look like, to be like what we imagine.

Speaker 1: 35:26

The good moms do the good the good people, the good humans, the good wives, right, what is so much, yeah, what is even a good mom, yeah, okay and and putting that out into extracurriculars the right right school, the right clothes and if you put that same love, care and connection and tenderness that you put out this way, this way, I truly believe and have experienced, in moments of my life when I've been able to overcome that narrative, that it doesn't even exist anymore.

Speaker 1: 35:55

That what is good, what is right, what is proper, it just like just goes wrong and I know that sounds fluffy and like magical and whatever, but like try it when I'm more focused, like when I'm more focused this way, right, and like my, my, my life and my things are here and everything else is out in the periphery is like this everything else is out in the periphery is like this container feels safe. This container feels good to just exist within my values, within my being, within my intentions. That when I put everything else at a distance, when I can pour into this, when I can fill my own cup, put everything else at a distance when I can pour into this, when I can fill my own cup then living in this container doesn't feel so stuck trapped like I don't have choice.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Exactly so give yourselves permission to release that trap.

Speaker 1: 36:53

Thank you so much, jenny, for yet another enlightening, amazing conversation, not only for me but for the listeners who may be in a stuck, rigid, hard position in life. And breaking it down to be simple in practice you know harder when we consider the narratives or the head games or the things that we can talk ourselves in or out of is that when we break it down it is really quite simple around choice or intention. Five seconds of this, five seconds of this doesn't have to be an hour.

Speaker 2: 37:34

If you've got an hour it's magical, that's magic to eat it up. Yeah, you're welcome, it's always a delight talking to you. And, yes, make it accessible, and it is accessible, and we're the only ones that get in our way.

Speaker 1: 37:53

So thanks for having me. That can be such a hard, uncomfortable truth to look at, to face. That's like the question that immediately is coming to me now is like where are my eyes closed and where are my eyes open to this Right yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:12

Yeah, be gentle with yourselves, be loving with yourself and be patient. Be patient. We're all figuring this out and in a world that's really dark and hard right now, we do need the joy and the lightness. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:29

Yeah, thank you so much again.

Speaker 2: 38:31

You're welcome and just really quickly, you mentioned a headspace. There's also an app called Insight Timer and it is free. Free and I'm on there. I have about five meditations, amazing, and they're just. They're all free and they're simple and it's just. You find it under my name, jenny McLaughlin.

Speaker 1: 38:52

Amazing. Thank you so much for that resource, Jenny. You bet Be well, my friend.